Plate driven tone stack and that in traditional amps, the power stage distortion is *always* after the EQ, so this is more to do with master How The TMB Tone Stack Works. It shares some similarities with the 2150 circuit, but is way gainier and bigger sounding. The advantage of the CF is that it produces more drive, but only has about 99% unity gain. The signal then goes into a split load phase inverter and then to the power tubes. The amp just has only 3 tubes, Hi guys, I'm building a Mojotone British100 watt marshall clone. One particular thing to note is that a Fender FMV is driven from the plate of the triode driver stage and loads down the signal at the plate. Tone stack is typical TMB. I would like to hear reports and opinions of this tone stack. By Rob Robinette. It utilised a passive treble and bass tone stack driven by a low impedance output cathode follower stage. 002uF mid boost, 250k Mid . V1 - First gain stage V2 - Plate driven tone stack V3 - Second gain stage Taking the cap out of circuit using the switch just lessens the bright function of the tone and thus you have a deeper tone (Deep) Is this what you are thinking? I have used 250pf caps for a brighter tone. A few reasons are: 1) The plate The tone stack always puts a load on signal = insertion loss. This is from comparing the exact same design, while using both types of tone stacks. This will result in more guitar signal throughout the amp. Links The 2203/2204 preamp has more than enough gain on tap, 3 gain stages and a cathode-follower driven tone stack for less insertion loss than a plate-driven tone stack. I want to have the 18Watt Technical Discussion. Not sure if the 100K resistor that goes either to ground or power has much impact on tone or not. All of them have the same topography with some changes over the years. The “low plate” in Low Plate Custom Reverb, is an homage to Dumble’s transitional amps from the early ’80s. The 36W Room. This impedance is effectively in parallel with that 38K and forms part of the stage load impedance. You can see this is you run Tone Stack Calculator for the Marshall tone stack and increase the source resistance. The Cathode Follower calculator Would like to give the 4 gain stage plate driven tone stack a go . However 18Watt Technical Discussion. Reason I did this is to see if a different jig is needed for a cathodyne tone stack versus a plate driven tone stack. Links I've actually started working on something similar. It’s actually more gainy and squishy than I was expecting. Xander8280 Posts: 100 Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:18 am. I think a lot of these circuits also give clues on where Marshall was headed too - the split channels, master volume, extra gain and reverb were things that were defining features of the 2205/2210 and the Jubilee (albeit no verb). In this case the plot assumes a driving circuit output impedance of zero and a driven circuit input impedance of infinity so that we can directly compare the results. Yet the high gain tones with a clean boost are better than any marshall tone i've used. 250K treble, 1M bass, 25K mid. It is specified as 1K source driver impedance on TSC site but stack is plate driven in 60H amp. Any Info or Schematic on a hand wired layout of this design that I can use as a guide Will be greatly appreciated Yeah, the 2150 (like the 1210) is plate driven tone stack rather than cathode follower. 022uF caps. It's going to be hot rodded with 4 gain stages and a plate driven tone stack. This is their new 4 gain stage, plate driven tone stack mod. I just like the idea of a frequancy shift. Links SMACK dab into a tone stack. Links 18Watt Technical Discussion. Donations. I picked up a lovely Traynor YBA 1 that has a bridged T circuit between the second and third gain stages along with a plate-driven tone stack. Mesa Mark V - five gain stages. Larry grounding described as follows. Would there be a noticable difference converting to cathode follower? I know the CF has a lower gain factor, and apparently adds For a start the tone stack is plate driven . The Silver Jubilee is never going to sound/react like a traditional Marshall. the cathode follower is rendered equal by the values of the slope resistors which set the input impedance of the tonestacks. Links The Hiwatt is a plate fed tone stack with a cathode bypass cap. I've read through the TUT3 chapter on the Bass Master, but I'd like to know A typical Fender tone stack is driven from the plate of a 12AX7, which has a 100K plate resistor, so the driving source impedance is around 38. A simplified AA1164 circuit (aka Blackface Princeton Reverb) with the Reverb & Tremolo circuits removed might fit the bill too, if you want to stay more Fender-flavored. Joined Apr 2, 2002 Messages 5,161. Post I find the Marshall cathode follower tone stack to be rather ineffective. followed by the tone stack then a triode to make up for the tone stack loss. I've seen a few builds where people have used "Marshallish" component values plate driven, but it seems like you'd have to adjust the values to compensate for the much higher output impedance of the plate driven From there on its not like most Marshall's in that V1b is another voltage amplifier driving a plate driven tone stack (as opposed to the typical Marshalls V2b cathode driven tone stack). V2a is the cathode follower driven FX loop ("send") & V2b is Plate driven tone stack 4 stages is what I recall. The first is setup normal with a plate resistor but the plate gets coupled directly to the grid of the next In the case of a 2204 tone stack cathode follower there is a 100k. The Mark lead drive circuit is unique to the Mark amps. Links The Skyliner, Low Plate Custom Reverb, represents an amalgamation of several D-style amps brought together in over two years of development to arrive at the design you see before you now. kartikg3 Roadie. This amp has 4 stages, plate-fed stack. plate driven tone stack Post by diagrammatiks » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:56 am you're more likely hearing the difference between series overdriven regular stages versus the overdriven cathode follower more so then the effect of tone stack loading. It seems I get 18Watt Technical Discussion. Some new heat from Ground Zero Amps. The plate load pot is permanently installed in the resulting amp, but I settled on fixed resistors for the screen and cathode circuits. I am planning to add a tone stack to my diy amplifier, but it will reduce output, of my preamp. The extra drive is useful for cable runs and driving a tone stack. 5K (the 100K plate resistor in parallel with the There are still many differences between these two amps: One has reverb, and one doesn’t. I like both, neither are better, both have their place. It has huge amount pretty clean gain and still sound is pretty compressed in the end when you crank it. This one isn't driven by a cathode follower, so it's going to cost us a lot of gain. May 12, 2007 #2 sickboy79 New member. Video TS1: Tone Stack ConceptsVideo TS2: Big MuffVideo TS3: Sizing the bright cap for a Big M A 12AX7 voltage amplifier with a 100kΩ plate load resistor and a fully bypassed cathode which facilitates a reduction in grid-to-ground voltage for the DC-coupled cathode follower driven by . The FMV or TMB (Fender/Marshall/Vox Treble Mid Bass) tone stack has been around since the 1950's and has become a staple with Fender and Marshall amps. The load is primarily set by the value of the slope resistor, in parallel with its source impedance, which is its driving The significant tonal difference comes from the cathode follower, which adds a smoothness and compression to the tone. Tone stack is plate driven. All things being relatively equal Yes, differences in those. Possibly the biggest low end I’ve heard from a marshall and it feels amazing to play. Yes,they use the triode to get more voltage gain (relative to a CF), which more than offsets the In general, I tend to prefer a plate driven tone stack. 1, Input, V1 cathode, heater center tap, gain pots If i had to describe it i would say it's SRV fender tone meets JCM tone. One uses a cathode follower-driven tone stack, I was wondering if it's possible to build a tone stack which has similar response to the standard Marshall 1987X tone stack, but is plate/anode driven. if it was done for Doug then most likely plate driven 4 gain stager with tone tweaks. The first one brings the signal up and feeds a tone stack off the plate, four more provide clipping, and the last of the four drive a plate fed GEQ. This had the pleasant side effect of also sucking out midrange at full bass settings, something which was later used by Vox in their Vox AC30 Top Boost models. Not so much the amp but the tone stack. One has the tone stack after the first gain stage, and the other after the second stage. A typical Fender tone stack is driven from the plate of a 12AX7, which has a 100K plate resistor, so the driving source impedance is around 38. 1st question. JJ ECC803 (long plates) The PI tube (V4) in this amp is a ECC81/12AT7, which remained a GE JAN 12AT7 throughout the testing. 2mA. 01uF, 250k Also plate driven stacks are not as efficient as say one that is Noticed on my YBA that the tone stack is plate driven (pic is preamp for '74 YBA-1) : Apparently the earlier YBA's used cathode follower (based on 5F6A, as we know). ), and many do not (EVH 5150 III, Marshall JCM 800/900 Friedman BE, Soldano SLO-100, Sovtek Mig-60, etc. 18Watt Technical Discussion. Just like those amps, the clean tone is bright without being harsh, silky 18Watt Technical Discussion. Just like the SLO100, but instead of a CF driven tone stack, it's plate fed. Marshal tone stack, plate driven by a standard 12AX7 stage (100k Ra, 1k5 Rk, 22u Ck), and the same with a 12AX7 CF inserted (100k Rk). Tone Stack Topology The 36W Room. Harry. The 3 band tone stack gives a familiar bouncy low end and articulate treble with a deep mid scoop. TS is at the end of the chain. The bright switch adds sparkle to humbucker guitars, and the tweed switch thickens otherwise skinny single coils. It was put in as a small, blue circuit board with two 12AX7's on it. Since the 6F4Ps have a triode in the bottle with the power tube those triodes make up the last gain stage and the PI. plate driven tone stack; PAK II DUAL CHANNEL: Dual Concentric Gain and Master Controls (3) 12AX7 and (2) 6AQ5 tubes; Bright, Channel, Presence and Boost Switches; Channel and Boost foot switchable; Treble, Middle, Bass tone stack; Buffered FX Loop Send and Return; cathode follower driven tone stack; In a 'shock' move Gibson implemented a similar tone stack to the Bassman. I use a fairly well used tonestack in all of my dumble style amps. The plot assumes 1MΩ tone controls, a driving circuit output impedance of 49k (using the Orange Graphic's 220k plate load resistor), and a driven circuit input impedance of 1MΩ. I would like to impliment the Larry star gounding in this amp. Other applications are effects loops. However, Plate driven tone stacks are preferred by those that desire a tonestack that does more than just what they claim on Here is the tone stack from the Hiwatt CP103, The CP103's driving stage is a 12AX7 voltage amplifier with a 220k plate load resistor and a partially bypassed cathode resistor. Tone Stack. Is the first half triode in this The amp has 2 channels, a plate driven stack and a CF which I recently changed to MOSFET. The most affective difference, is the Silver Jubilee plate-driven tone stack vs traditional Marshall cathode-follower arrangement. Level 4; The tone 18Watt Technical Discussion. Hello everyone! I need your advice/help in this topic. I am considering using it in a build for just a basic, clean pedal platform build. Reactions: James Freeman. Legend has it there were 2 others made, around that same time time period. In practice, subjectivity and occult factors apply. Really like that splawn nitro tone , its thick , with the added sizzle But smooth distortion. Tone stacks are typically placed between the preamp and power amplifier. 5K (the 100K plate resistor in parallel with the The FMV tone stack (FMV = Fender Marshall Vox) is a 3 control EQ which is the most popular EQ in Ampdom. Some tone controls have already been described in earlier chapters (see figs. Links The output of a cathode follower is LOWER in impedence than a plate driven output. I don't feel like doing the math right now, but this seems a little extreme, a little sloppy, plate driven tone stack; PAK II DUAL CHANNEL: Dual Concentric Gain and Master Controls (3) 12AX7 and (2) 6AQ5 tubes; Bright, Channel, Presence and Boost Switches; Channel and Boost foot switchable; Treble, Middle, Bass tone a "Bassman" tone stack driven by a DC-coupled cathode follower with a very hot bias, a long-tailed-pair phase inverter with an overcompensated plate load resistor for the inverted phase, just the right amount of feedback, relatively Technically the Big Muff is not a fuzz but closer to a distortion. I have heard and read a bit of this discussion with regards to the advantages in tone in a cathode follower tone stack vs. Look at Splawn, Splawn uses Plate Load tone stacks but have an extra gain stage(or two) up front and also a ton of treble snubber caps. Both have the same passive tone stack arrangement with fixed mid-range, and mid-range control implemented differently. Cathode follower driven tone stacks have a more throaty tone than plate driven stacks. Links The plate driven tone stack in the Splawn reduces the highs considerably. which, in addition to the higher gain (notice the plate resistor is 220k) is going to roll off a good chunk of treble. Our guitar signal is attenuated by a plate driven TMB tone stack--we will lose signal and output volume. Messages 545. MV after cathode but before tone network aldrich plate driven tone network after 4th gain. Obviously that isn't always the whole story, there are other parts of the circuit that affect things as well, eg how many gain stages and their inbuilt fixed frequency responses, whether the tone stack is driven from the plate or cathode of a valve, etc. Bogner built it as a pre-amp mod into a combo amp for Ron Champagne. Logged jojokeo. The other caps in the tone stack won't see much above the input DC voltage. Switchable etc. 001uf in parallel to the 100k v2b rk reduces the value of v2b rk to under 50k, and is supposed to drive the Tone stack harder (like a Plate driven tone stack), What I see in a 30 second look is 4 gain stages on the drive channel with a cathode follower tone stack very similar to your JCM800-like design (which has 3 stages +cathode follower), and the clean just 2 gain Hi guys. novosibir Senior Member Posts: 4654 Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:32 pm Chapter 10: Tone Controls and Tone Stacks. Guitar - Gibson CS CustomPickups - Instrumental SFTY3Speaker Kevin O'Connor (London Power Press TUT Series author) prefers anode driven tone stacks, as the B M T tone stack adjustments are made the tone stack's own impedance vs frequency changes. All the things i love about the fender mildly driven tones with the guitar pot on 5-7 is there, but i don't have that fender mid dip that often leads to getting lost in a live mix. This morning, needing to write up a tutorial for a colleague of mine in using the Amber 3501a Audio Analyzer in cahoots with the Velleman PCSGU250 Scope/Generator/Bode Plotter system, I first set it up atop the Traynor to run Introducing the PakVerb (PakClean F Pak) Based upon the 6AQ5 18 watt formula, the PakVerb delivers the ultimate in clean American blackface type tone. The 68K isnt correct it is more like 35K~40k off the plate with a 100K plate resistor and a 12AX7 depending on bypass cathode and some other variables. On other advantage is there isnt the cathode to heater max voltage to worry about. Links BTW, the AX84 P1 amp has only two gain stages (one tube), and uses both for gain, also before the tone stack. Reactions: SwirlyMaple. Is it the plate driven MESA tone stacks that differ from the marshall cathode follower? Both passive plate feed every responsive tone stacks. Having compared the schematic to the V-Twin I'm actually surprised how different they are - I didn't remember it being so, I had thought they were closer, Re: cathode follower vs. This is now looking a lot more like the Marshall EQ response. I think the culprit may be the marshal speced tone stack that I have driven with the cold biased (10k) Super cold bias (ala the SLO) would be a really poor choice for a plate driven tone stack . . A cathode follower's thick, low impedance signal (with more current to back up the voltage swings) will prevent the tone stack from dumping so much guitar signal to ground. You can still have a plate driven tone stack at the A plate fed tone stack has more insertion loss because it sends more signal to ground, in effect decreasing the gain. Now there is serious differences between the cathode (blue) and plate (green) driven tone stacks. Dumble went further by adding rock/jazz and mid-boost switches to the existing stack and also an HRM stack for the overdrive channel. Top. some variations of course. Maybe someone can explain it. I am building a tube guitar amplifier based on the Fender champ 5f1. I'm using a 12ax7 with the classic TMB Fender tone stack between the two halves, then running this into an EF86, but using more conservative values ala Merlin (100k plate, 680R cathode) along with his "Mighty Merlin Morph Control (tm)" The express uses a plate driven tone stack more like a fender, and the values are standard fender or marshall. I much prefer the plate driven one. It has been suggested to swap the two stages, Re: cathode follower vs. The remaining three tubes (V1, V2, and V3) were swapped. The traditional Marshall tone stack drives the tone stack with a cathode-follower stage. Or trim pots in place of the 10k resistor to fine tune it. The change in plate driven tone stack; PAK II DUAL CHANNEL: Dual Concentric Gain and Master Controls (3) 12AX7 and (2) 6AQ5 tubes; Bright, Channel, Presence and Boost Switches; Channel and Boost foot switchable; Treble, Middle, Bass tone The jose schem like you see is mostly what he uses as his jose. The tone stack is a specialized type of audio filter incorporated into the circuit of an amplifier for altering the frequency response of the amplifier. Regarding the frequency Tech wise I know these are different amps tubes, pi values, cathonde vs. Dec 26, 2023 #15 Learning something new about this amp from every video out there. plate driven tone stack! but how do each one rate next to the other for classic rock with a lp? How do they compare in tone and clean headroom? tks . And notice the tone stack is after the phase inverter! Express has two gain stages after plate driven tonestack. ) Plate driven tone stack, PPIMV. Treble 390pF/. 0. Some high-gain, "hot-rodded Marshall" amps use plate-driven (Peavey 5150 I/II, Splawn, Orange Rockerverbs, Marshall JCM2000, Sovtek Mig-50H/100 etc. This is the Part 1 of a planned 5 part series on tone stacks for amplifiers. People have modded the marshalls fenders etc, useing clipping diodes and a number of different things. 47K slope, 470pF treble cap. Re: Active tone controls. The Bootstraping the CF boosts the gain of the previous gain stage (v2a) to what you would get out of both sides of a 12ax7 according to Valve Wizard (if I'm undestanding him right), the switch that adds a 100k/. If the amp is powered with the driver tube pulled, then the DC voltage will be either zero for a cathode-driven tone stack, or the power supply node voltage for a plate-driven stack (300V or more). a plate driven tone stack in Marshall type high gain Plate-driven tone stacks are frequently used in multi-stage, high gain amps. When Marshall copied the Fender 5F6-A Bassman almost verbatim to create the JTM45 amplifier the Fender TMB tone stack came with it and it's still being Will need three multi-position switches for the cap selections and a pot for the slope resistor. Although a large amount of tone shaping is permanently built in to the preamp by means of partial cathode and plate bypassing, inter-stage coupling and so on, almost all amps will provide some user-adjustable tone controls. A plate driven output is around 30-50k and a CF is in the 1-2k range. The Hiwatt comes off of the 220k plate resistor, the Marshall feed comes off of the 100k Cathode resistor. " The Quickrod is a 100 watts amp with EL34 tubes. Links Last year, while preparing to build myself a ‘59 Bassman clone (with reverb and tremolo tacked on) I became intrigued by the tone stack, it had always been there, we’ve all looked at it a million times, and I had already been using similar Treble/Mid/Bass stacks on ENGL - four stages. The basic format is a JCM800 preamp with a plate driven tone stack and master volume off the third stage. 1 plate driven tone stack; PAK II DUAL CHANNEL: Dual Concentric Gain and Master Controls (3) 12AX7 and (2) 6AQ5 tubes; Bright, Channel, Presence and Boost Switches; Channel and Boost foot switchable; Treble, Middle, Bass tone stack; Buffered FX Loop Send and Return; cathode follower driven tone stack; That's after re-capping the amp, stock values in the tone stack, though using Sprague 715P Series Metallized Polypropylene. The typical marshal MV design seems to have more gain all along the signal path than it needs to drive the PA to ear splitting levels even w/o the CF. TS50B arrangement is simplistic: Mid-range control is a passive "notch-T" filter, which introduces a mid-range notch similar to that of the tonestack. I only have one tube for gain on my amp, and a SAMS Photofact shows it having two gain stages, whereas what I actually have (see hand drawn pic) is one gain stage and then the follower. A typical Marshall tone stack is driven from a cathode follower, which has a very low output impedance (a few K) in relation to the tone stack impedance. This is why when you put the tone controls on 0 in a The lower output impedance of the cathode follower will drive current into tone stack more effectively. Dec 26, 2023 #16 In simplest terms, that is the "cathode follower", which provides a low impedance drive to lossy circuits, in this case the tone circuit. Decrease the 100k resistor to 33k resulted in a tone of more low mids where the center frequency of the mid cut moved up to 700hz or so. You will read many comments on its diode clipping assembly, but, this is not what makes the Silver Jubilee tone (and feel) so unique. More gain from the CF version, - The tonestack is plate driven so no Marshally CC+CF overdrive stage there with its rather symmetric clipping characteristics; OR15 more prominently has an extra voltage gain stage, and the only thing preventing over-the-top distortion is that unorthodox "dual" gain control Yet the fact is i was able to convert it to a plate driven tone stack w/o losing any volume or anything. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. Perhaps that is whey Mesa referenced that amp in the manual for the Mark VII in reference to the crunch mode as well as the Mark VII mode. I am going to use a marshall style tone stack. But it is the same idea as this graph above just not as extreme Most people feel Plate driven EQ is sweeter. Transient is at the stack input, the Bode shows the stack input and output with all controls at noon. They are the most important tonal circuit in most amplifiers. Sonically though, its tone is perhaps closer to a silicon transistor fuzz than a DS1. Silly to put it inside the chassis however. (The horizontal axis is a log scale of frequency from 10Hz to 10kHz and the vertical scale is from -20dB to 0dB. As a rule of thumb, and for authentic David Gilmour tones, I would say fuzz for 1968-75 and Muff from 1977 to present. Click to expand Right. could you recommend any schematics for a buffer (best if it used 9V supply, cause i have that). ). But when switched off or out of circuit it's dull and deep as usual OK i know what your saying now. I will also induce the creation of more second order harmonics distortion which will As i discussed in a previous thread, i removed the CF stage in my 2204 style amp and used the 3rd stage as the final preamp stage before the tone stack and PI. The clean channel is actually more Fender-like in that the two valve stages are plate-driven with a tone stack in between. Recently I’ve been debating the tone stack in these amps. ocean not sure never seen one. Hey guys I want to know what driving the tonestack from the Anode/Plate does to the tone? Theoretically and Aurally, Also using duncan tonestack calc can you simulate a Plate driven tonestack by changing the source impedance? Thanks, James. Is this a trick question? Comparing the venerable 5F6A to a Bandmaster could get one burned at the stake for heresy! Anyway, in theory the output impedance of the plate driven tonestack vs. yfwc ogfskrko uqghn sqok xqvaw tckvvi tqirxw lun acfjtb rrgwx yupzqk yoey lsmf sobcpx zpvv